Black Legislators Patmon, Barnes, Denounce Wild Wild West Bill For Guns In Ohio Bars And Sports Stadiums, Say It Hurts Blacks

Submitted by JournalistKathy... on Fri, 04/15/2011 - 07:36.
 
 

Ohio State Rep Bill Patmon (D-Cleveland)


Ohio State Rep. John E. Barnes Jr. (D-Cleveland)

Ohio State Sen. Charleta Tavares (D-Columbus)


 
 
 
Ohio State Sen. Nina Turner (D-Cleveland)

Ohio State Sen. Shirley Smith (D-Cleveland)

Ohio State Sen. Capri Cafaro
 (D-Youngstown)

Ohio State Sen. Tim Schaffer (R-Lancaster)

By Kathy Wray Coleman, Editor of the Kathy Wray Coleman Online News Blog. Com and Cleveland Urban News.Com (www.kathywraycolemanonlinnewsblog.com)

A bill that passed the Republican led Ohio Senate on Wed. 24-7 and would allow Ohioans to carry holstered guns for possible shoot outs in area bars and sports stadiums is commensurate to the "Wild Wild West" days where vigilantes ruled at a whim and would heighten gun violence in predominantly Black urban cities like Cleveland and E. Cleveland, Black legislators told the Kathy Wray Coleman Online News Blog.Com Thurs. evening.

"I cannot believe that we are talking about allowing anyone to take a nine millimeter to a bar or a stadium," said. State Rep. Bill Patmon (D-10), a Cleveland Democrat."What would a person need a gun for?"

Senate Bill 17 is vigorously opposed by law enforcement unions across Ohio, including the Cleveland Police Patrolmen's Association, and is being pushed by the National Rifle Association and other conservative gun promoting venues.

"This is like the Wild Wild West and opens the door for shootouts at local bars, and it is not good for urban communities," said Patmon.

State Rep. John E. Barnes Jr. (D-12), also a Cleveland Democrat, was just as angry and agreed with Patmon's notion that heightening gun toting laws could allow people to take the law into their own hands and would disenfranchise the Black community by increasing gun violence in urban cities where Blacks either dominate or are a prevalent population such as Cleveland, Cincinnati, Columbus, Toledo, Dayton, Akron, E. Cleveland and Youngstown.

According to the 2010 U.S. Census Report Cleveland is 51 percent Black, Columbus and Toledo are roughly 24 percent Black, some 43 percent of the people that reside in the cities of Cincinnati, Youngstown and Dayton are Black, and 28 percent occupy Akron. E. Cleveland still remains the Blackest, with a Black population of 93 percent.

"There's an insensitivity about what happens in urban areas," said Barnes.

Sponsored by Sen. Tim Schaffer (R-31), a Lancaster Republican, the bill heads to the Republican dominated Ohio House and would become law if it passes there without any conflicting amendments and is then signed by Ohio Republican Gov. John Kasich, who has not been outspoken one way or another on the controversial measure. Though little relief to those against the bill, mainly Democrats, it does require that the guns are concealed, coupled with a provision for felony prosecution if the person drinks alcohol at the bar or stadium with a gun.

State Sen. Charleta Tavares (D-15) , a Columbus Democrat who voted against the bill as did Cleveland based Senators Nina Turner(D-25) and Shirley Smith (D-21), told reporters that the proposed law does not make much sense and said that linking a felony to it if people drink liquor while carrying the guns is asking for trouble.

Republicans say the bill is okay because it simply allows trusting and law-abiding citizens to carry concealed weapons conveniently in permitted public and private places in Ohio without a hassle. Felons, the mentality ill and others subject to stipulations that preclude guns in general under state law could not carry them though the bill also seeks to bring the statute into compliance with a recent U.S. Supreme Court decision in McDonald vs. Chicago that permits residential guns for protection pursuant to the Second Amendment's constitutional right to bear arms regardless of any misdemeanor conviction of any type, absent any other disqualifying measure under the law.

Not discussed is whether it might curtail police misconduct at bars against innocent patrons in places like Cleveland's popular Warehouse District where the Cleveland NAACP has said that tensions between Blacks that go there and police that moonlight there are high, or whether it minimizes police power by giving people, cowardly types in particular, a false sense of security.

Senate Minority Leader Capri Cafaro (D-32), a White Youngstown Democrat who is usually in line with Black legislators on high profile measures that have partisan consequences, crossed partisan lines with six other Democrats to support Wednesday's passage of the bill by the Senate.

In 1998 Youngstown had the highest homicide rate per capita in the nation of Black women, data show.

www.kathywraycolemanonlinenewsblog.com

( categories: )

Guns don't hurt people...other people do!!!

24-7...Over 3-1 voted for it....

I have grown up around guns and bars...

It's kind of humorous for me to hear this story.... because it's the people with 50 caliber MOUTHes who flap jaws at bars that usually start all the trouble....Usually, the guys with their CCW's are pretty much quiet and conservative in their behaviors.... They are NOT gun carrying WILD WILD WEST people. It's humorous to read this story...because I have lived my whole life around gun carrying folks and countless folks I know have been carrying guns in bars for DECADES WITHOUT INCIDENT! (Wrong or right-it's been happening for ages!)....

It's the unlicensed, street punks who put me in fear...

The teens buying guns on the street from their friends who have never been trained about safety and proper usage of those weapons are the ones that scare me. The ones who keep unregistered guns in their houses hidden where little kids find them scare me. Those are the ones who don't respect weapons like they should be respected.

My child and other family children have always been taught to respect the weapons, understand the dangers of using them, and even been trained to properly use those weapons. Our kids know that those weapons are NOT toys, that they are very dangerous, and they don't have excessive curiosities about those weapons because adults were NOT "hiding" them but teaching them about guns & locking them up afterwards. They know because adults took time to teach them about guns properly.

Most bars have guns in them from the get go....right behind the bar! That is a well known fact that most don't even speak about... I don't know many bar owners that are not packing in some way... Same for all the corner stores in this world...

People are sick of being robbed by terrorizing criminals of all races.

I have NEVER been afraid to walk in a bar knowing that there was a gun in the mix. In all actuality, it made me feel safer just knowing that there were people there willing to keep the peace! I have never been afraid to hang out with a licensed CCW person. Yet, I have been afraid of uneducated, reckless, and nothing to live for people who get their hands on guns... They are the ones who really hurt people both intentionally and unintentionally! 

 

 

 

 

Always Appreciative, "ANGELnWard14"

 

Thanks for reading but I

Thanks for reading but I think the proposed law is dangerous regardless of race. The potential gun violence at bars is still an issue even if those that you know are typically law abiding people. Don't you agree AngelnWard14?--Kathy Wray Coleman

There is always potential for violence at bars, regardless of...

guns...

Shall we ban knives in bars? How many folks have been cut by knives in bars throughout the ages of time in comparison to being shot by guns? 

Guns & Knives are NOT DANGEROUS... It's the users of them that are dangerous...

People's emotions are the key element that drives violence at any location in the world.

If someone has lost control at any degree in any place; almost any "item" on the planet could turn into a "weapon" in a matter of seconds.

Some people tend to let their kids play violent video games and see no harm in it. Those games are not outlawed. People are hurt at their places of employment every day in our world by everything from heavy lifting to paper cuts. We live in a dangerous world...But we don't outlaw work! We drive in vehicles and could have an accident at any point for a number of reasons. It's a dangerous world out here....regardless of guns.

My brother was murdered because another human being lost control and beat him to death with his bare hands...no weapon, no item; just his enraged body parts. Shall we ban 'HANDS' at bars? 

The human factor determines "VIOLENCE".

People need to learn skills that prevent violence, deter it, and help them to act more realistically to "violent" impulses that hurt other people.

Life is such a challenge! We, as individuals, have to think about our choices to be violent and to project our emotions on other people.  We have a choice...

And I believe that others should have a choice to defend themselves from unpredictable violence whereever they are in the world...  

....Maybe we should mandate "ANGER MANAGEMENT TRAINING" be completed before anyone turns 21 and is able to enter a bar, place of employment, or go anywhere in the world....Perhaps then we'd have a lot more peaceful resolutions to violent situations! 

 

Always Appreciative, "ANGELnWard14"

so sorry

about the loss of your brother.

 

It is time to get serious about what freedom means. Neither of you (Kathy or Angel) are right tho, no one needs any mandate.

This is a free nation, free people and to suggest we need rules in place like you have, twist the rights we already have.

I think you both already really know that, just think.

-----copy--snip--

"The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime." Miller v. U.S. 230 F 486 at 489

"Where rights as secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no rule making or legislation which will abrogate them." Miranda v. Ariz., 384 U.S. 436 at 491 (1966).

"The general rule is that an unconstitutional statute, though having the form and name of law, is in reality no law, but is wholly void, and ineffective for any purpose; since unconstitutionality dates from the time of it's enactment, and not merely from the date of the decision so branding it.
No one is bound to obey an unconstitutional law, and no courts are bound to enforce it." - Sixteenth American Jurisprudence, Second Edition, Section 256 137, 180

"Since an unconstitutional law is void, the general principles follow that it imposes no duties, confers no rights, creates no office, bestows no power or authority on anyone, affords no protection and justifies no acts performed under it. No one is bound to obey an unconstitutional law and no courts are bound to enforce it." 16 Am Jur 2nd Section 177

"All laws, rules and practices which are repugnant to the Constitution are null and void." Marbury v. Madison

"The United States is entirely a creature of the Constitution. Its power and authority have no other source. It can only act in accordance with all the limitations imposed by the Constitution." Reid v Covert 354 US l (1957)

"When a legislature undertakes to proscribe the exercise of a citizen's constitutional rights it acts lawlessly and the citizen can take matters into his own hands and proceed on the basis that such a law is no law at all." - Justice William O. Douglas

 

 

 

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Campaign for Liberty, not restrictions - Betty

 

The problem is, America is NOT a Democracy - it is a Republic! As our Founding Fathers established, can we keep it?

If only murder would reap you such a nice sentence these days...

Everyone would be doing it! 

Learn how easy it was for this murderer to get off with killing a kid! 

 

Always Appreciative, "ANGELnWard14"

When your own words fail...

use someone else's:

 

"Into the hours and minutes. of uncertainty,

I want to be

In the warm hold of your loving mind.

 

To feel you all around me, and to take your hand,

Along the sand.

Ah, but I may as well try and catch the wind.

 

When sundown pales the sky, I want to hide awhile,

Behind your smile.

And everywhere I'd look, your eyes I'd find.

 

For me to love you now

Would be the sweetest thing

Would make me sing.

Ah, but I may as well try and catch the wind.

 

When rain has hung the leaves with tears,

I want you near, to kill my feats,

To help me to leave all my blues behind.

 

Standing in your heart is where I want to be, and long to be.

Ah, but I may as well try and catch the wind.

Ah, but I may as well try and catch the wind.

Donovan Leitch

 

taking of one's life, IMO would not be an easy thing to do

For ANY REASON. When I first read of the death of your brother Angel, I wondered some of how this came about, how he didn't put up a fight, etc. But now I see he was a baby, such a young child.

I can only feel for you, and see that the killer didn't get much, and fail to understand that as well. (see u said he was beat up, so sad so so sad)

This thread, tho, is about guns.

I see it mentioned how hard it would be to murder another? In my book hard, really hard. Unless that person was attacking me - could I do it? Don't know, guess I could, would hate to ever find out. Self defense is a pretty old reaction. 

If I had ever, I could not forget it very easy I am sure. I would think about that life I took, often. So no, it would not be for any reason of if one can get away with it, could be a reason they would do it more often.

Did that man ever kill again? Have no clue how he got off so easy, such a crime in it's self too.

Peace, Betty

http://insight.kellogg.northwestern.edu/index.php/Kellogg/article/preven...

--snip-- At one extreme are people who have zero taste for crime; nothing will entice them to commit a crime. At the other end are those for whom no penalty is severe enough to deter them. They pose a significant problem. Namely, they guarantee that no society will ever be free of crime, no matter how draconian the punishment.

The people in the middle, however, are wild cards. Their decisions influence crime rates greatly. They might commit a crime if the corresponding penalty were mild or the probability of getting caught were sufficiently low. Eventually, some in that group will commit minor offenses, and under a system of marginal penalties they will be sentenced accordingly.

But under a system of maximum penalties, these small-time criminals might decide to up the ante. After all, by committing any crime, they would already be facing the maximum penalty, so they would be inclined to commit a crime that would bring them the maximum benefit, like robbing a bank instead of a convenience store. As more criminals committed more egregious offenses, law enforcement would become overwhelmed. This, in turn, would decrease the chances of the criminals’ getting caught, which would encourage more people to commit crimes. A crime wave would ensue.

 

more at link http://insight.kellogg.northwestern.edu/index.php/Kellogg/article/preven...

 

 

 

 

The problem is, America is NOT a Democracy - it is a Republic! As our Founding Fathers established, can we keep it?

Corruption...judges, lawyers, and the system helped this guy...

get away with murder...

May God level the playing field with all those who participate in such injustices.... May they know the pain, cynicism, and lifelong suffering that they cause by "paying to play"... May they know the surreal damage that they have done to generations of people for acting "OUTSIDE" the law. May they rot in hell for all their lifelong days....May they look over their shoulders waiting to be caught and punished. May they endure the pain, suffering, and loss without true justice that they have portrayed on countless families.

How do you forgive leaders, judges, and police who empowered deals like this? How do you forgive the murderer for beating a child to death. How do you forget living a life that endured such sadness and loss? 

And this city wants me to pay a traffic fine? Are you serious? Condemn me and the people of our community who have endured your garbage way of corruptly violating so many of us.... Play God, Be judges, find more ways to tax us so that you can enjoy the luxuries of your pay raises and gravy living...

I know this article was about guns...sorry that I sent it in another direction... Sorry that I got off track. I do apologize.

I guess it just ticks me off that our legislators can find time for this law but cannot find time for amending the laws that deal with countless day care schools and PEP schools in our community NOT BEING INCLUDED IN THE OHIO Department of Education mapping system for Sex Offender databases because they are not registered as DOE schools... I guess I am offended at the DOUBLE SET of Child Support Laws that create double standards for married and unmarried families....creating a completely ridiculous system. I guess I find it frustrating that they can spend UNGODLY amounts of money keeping a child support system going administratively; but that these courts stay in business as long as these problems remain UNSOLVED by their joke of a system that does not build up families.

This law is the least of my concerns... Truthfully, I think it's sad that anyone at any degree should have to feel UNSAFE IN ANY BAR... but after a lifetime around gun owning citizens; I know in my heart that they are not the problem in this equation. I'd rather sit next to the guy with the gun than the guy with that is looking for trouble any day. That's just my opinion though.

Kids are dying in their living rooms from shots fired through the front of their homes... I feel safer at a bar with a gun than in my home without a gun! Sorry, just my perspective and I respect all others. Sorry about the rant; probably just needed a moment. Please forgive me tonight.

Always Appreciative, "ANGELnWard14"

That issue with guns in bars

That issue with guns in bars is interesting.  It is debatable though. Obviously some people like it or the bill would not have passed the Senate. Charleston Heston was once a liberal before pushing guns for the right wing consevatives. We went to the theatre with my dad to see his movies like The 10 Commandments and Ben Hur--Kathy Way Coleman

My condolences also Angel n

My condolences also Angel n Ward 14 as to the death of your brother. It is hard to lose a close sibling. Kathy Wray Coleman