ODOT Vegetative Screening Site Plans for Tremont (West side of the highway embankment)

Submitted by Henry Senyak on Mon, 12/14/2009 - 11:49.

I am attatching two PDF Site Plans. These were sent to me by ODOT late last week.

You will see close to 375 new trees are planned.

7 different style deciduous trees.

2 different style evergreen trees.

Additions incorporated into the plans after the last meeting with neighborhood stakeholders.

1) Dead and potentially hazardous trees will be removed. (Trees that have the possibility to fall or are growing at a severe angle) Additional new trees will replace these locations on a one to one basis. (These locations are not counted in the site plan totals).

2) Provide a 3-foot clear zone along the property fenceline.  A row of ornamental plants will be planted parallel to the fence. The site plan show a minimum of 126 Lilac and Viburnium shrubs to be planted.

3) A two foot wide strip will be provided at each of the four corners of the overpasses on Kenilworth and Starkweather parallel to the fence. This is to be used as flower beds, and can be seen from the street level.

All in all this project will beautify the community.

I have no update official update from ODOT relating to the Brooklyn Centre project. You may want to contact Mark Carpenter at ODOT to see if he can fill you in on the status in that area.

His email is :  Mark [dot] Carpenter [at] dot [dot] state [dot] oh [dot] us

PDF Site Plans attached.

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L1.1C_tremont.pdf1.76 MB
L1.1D_tremont.pdf1.96 MB
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BouquetwithSweetWillliam650.jpg104.26 KB
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I have a problem with some trees selected

First of all, let me say that I have several disabilities to make it hard for me to my normal chores, so I often am behind on things. I did send in my ballot for vegetation, not walls, for the Inner Belt Bridge. The Bridge is in my front yard, as I own one of the rowhouses that sit sideways to Abbey, just past W. 14th.

Last week I suddenly realized how great rugosa roses would be as they are invariably healthy, will grow almost anywhere without mollycoddling, and provide flowers through most of the summer. Many are said to be extremely fragrant. For planting in front, no grass. Plant sweet woodruff, which would not need to be mowed.  Hardy, low growing perennial herbs, such as sweet marjoram, thyme, oregano, etc. could also be used as ground cover. Ever-blooming bleeding heart with its lacy foliage and non-stop blooms would add visual appeal. Annual nigella, which self seeds could be used. Some mulch would help in the early years.
 
It probably wouldn't happen, but I read of people buying ground cherries at specialty farmer's markets in other cities, yet these grow wild in some areas in Ohio. Plant them so they grow in this stretch. Also, I've read that the Chinese wolfberries with their many incredible health benefits can grow here and may grow huge vines. No doubt there are other perennial or "wild" food sources that could be added. Sister Corita, among others, could collect herbs and cherries and berries. Students at the Montessori School could come for botany study.

It need not be my little stretch that is lined with blooming, fragrant, trouble-free shrubs, underplanted with perennial, fragrant herbs that do not need mowing and perhaps even plants and vines that provide edible berries for collection, a beautiful and sensory sight, a botany lesson, and a source for kitchens. How green can you get?

 

I emailed my North of Literary Block CLub Co-Chairs and Chris Garland, no word from any of them, but ODOT wrote a nice letter. I hate to bore you but I am new to this board so it is safer to copy and past his email and my response. Lilac and viburnum are lovely although only once blooming, I have no trouble with pine, spruce, hawthorne, locust is ok as its blooms carpet my street but don't make seedlings everywhere. But the rest...

* * *

Thank you for your interest in the vegetative screening for the Innerbelt Bridge project.    Last November, we had a workshop at the Tremont West Development Corporation (TDWC) Office with TDWC staff and residents interested in the proposed vegetative screening in lieu of noise barriers.   From that workshop, the residents requested the following species be used:  sugar maple, hawthorne, honey locust, golden rain tree, crabapple, oak, littleleaf linden, austrian pine, blue spruce, lilac, and viburnum.    A preliminary plan was prepared and is attached for your review.

Fortunately, the public involvement is continuing throughout the life of this project.   The Design Build Team that is chosen to complete the project will be tasked to prepare exhibits of the landscaping plan and present them to the public for review and comment.    Information on when and how to review the plan will come through the Tremont West Development Corporation.   Changes to plant species to be used is still possible, provided it is the majority of the residents' preference to do so.     ODOT will request that TWDC make/approve the final decision on which plant species to use.

At this time, I must decline the invitation to see your roses.  Please continue to provide your comments to me and to the TWDC as all public comments area considered and can influence the outcome of the project.

Thank you,

Mark Alan Carpenter, P.E.
District 12 Environmental Engineer
(216) 584-2089

* * *

I don't see anything east of Fairfield except the beginning of a large circle with markings I can't decipher. The area would be part of I-90. Nothing is indicated for the part of W. 14th that descends to Abbey. That is the stretch I was speaking of.
 
I don't know how the residents were chosen for the workshop. I haven't seen a preliminary advice as to what trees were chosen on my behalf. I haven't looked up all the trees chosen.
 
--But I can tell you that it is my understanding that the horrible "helicopter" seeds are from maples. I have been having to pull up many little seedlings daily from my enclosed back garden and front area. They litter the sidewalk.
 
--I just looked up golden raintree and found that it sheds many seeds that sprout at the drop of a hat and is considered invasive. 
 
--On crabapple I found: "Crabapple tree diseases can cause ugly and hazardous conditions in the most beautiful of planned landscape designs. One bacterial and four fungal diseases cause most crabapple leaf and fruit discoloration and eventual fall. Branches become bare, sometimes with only a few dry leaves remaining. Tree disfiguration or death can result when these crabapple diseases are relentless for many years. Filthy leaves and contaminated fruit usually litter areas surrounding infected trees. This debris can cause dangerous and ugly conditions for walking and leisure activities. What starts as a fine-looking and attractive landscape area can become unacceptable and impractical for its original use.  Initial infection takes place in warm, humid weather around blossom time. Failure to cleanup mummified apples and canker-infested dead wood allows disease-spreading spores to overwinter. I doubt if ODOT is going to come along and clean up the fallen crabapples.
--Oaks are native to Mediterranean, winter-wet, summer-dry climate. During the winter, when the ground is wet from rain, the soil temperature is relatively low, and that lower temperature keeps disease from developing. However, if oaks get watered in the summer, when temperatures are high, oak root fungus (Armillaria mellea) can occur in the warm, wet conditions, to which the tree roots are very susceptible. This fungus enters the oak's roots and usually kills the tree slowly over several years. Even after a dead tree is gone, the disease can remain in the soil, attacking other susceptible plants.
 
--Because of their smog tolerance, lindens make good street trees, but they may attract spring aphids that drip honeydew on cars parked underneath.
 
Since each resident along the route and the block clubs were requested to decide about the sound barriers, I think that they should be advised directly of these choices, allowed input and then final approval in order to truly have majority approval of plantings. My quick Internet search shows problems on some. Others, like the littleleaf linden, would be fine depending on where they were planted (not near residents' cars.) I would like rugosas to be added.
 
The green litter here is from the "helicopters." They sprout like crazy. The wooden fence is pushed out in areas by trees that grew between the wooden fence and the chain link fence where they couldn't be mowed.
 
(Sorry, I haven't uploaded a picture of the maple seeds littering the sidewalk in great profusion.)

P.S. The PDF file he attached didn't have colored as yours does.

I object to some of the trees listed, other concerns

Who am I, well, I just joined here, am retired and disabled so don't get out much. No energy left. Barely can do daily chores, or walk my three wire-haired dachshunds enough, but do try to maintain fragrant old garden rose garden (you're invited to see), have in past made new garden on barren land where weeds grew before using plants I divided. I hated to throw away plants! Contact me if you want some.

I didn't know as much as Henry, (ODOT actually held meeting with neighborhood stakeholders? Didn't sound like they do that in their email to me, below.) How did they pick the interested residents for the workshop? Replace vegetation? I'd like them to get rid of the trees growing between the wooden fence next to our sidewalk and the new chainlink fence they put up, they didn't when they put the new chainlink fence up, my neighbor tried and tried to get someone to get rid of a dead tree, "public involvement is continuing" WHAT public involvement, and they're going to prepare exhibits for us  to review? Yes, stuck in TWDC's windows and no notices sent directly to each of the residents so that the older people such as myself will actually find out what is going on!

I suddenly realized that it did NOT have to be trees. Why not be the tough, no-trouble rugosa roses, many of which bloom most of the summer and have a strong frangrance. And why not underplant (as I do) with herbs that do not need to be mowed, and can be picked. And, hey, why not plant ground cherries that can be picked for food and even Chinese wolfberry vines with their extemely nutricious berries. They are said to grow here? So I wrote my block club co-chairs and Chris Garland, no response from any of them. But then Chris has stopped corresponding with me since I suggested his people, specifically Mr. Catano, learn time management skills and that he had an insubordinate employee in Mr. Catano.

I then wrote ODOT and got a very nice  reply with a plan that had no color, unlike Henry's, and information upsetting to me. It is one thing not to plant rugosa roses, as I still think they should, at least along my stretch, which is not shown on the plan (why not? When Chris was speaking to me I was told there would be changes to W. 14th and Abbey and I'd like to know what they are), but it is  another thing to plant trees that shed seeds that litter the sidewalks and sprout seedlings everywhere that I am constantly having to pull. I normally don't have to weed , since I mulch and underplant.

And after sending notices to every resident along the path to vote, how is it that there is no provision for the residents or the block clubs to vote? TWDC decides. As you will see in my email, and I apologize for copying and pasting both  emails here, it will be quite long, but I don't feel I have the skills to somehow post a link to them, I only did a quick Internet search and yet found information that should rule out several of the trees. The viburnum and lilac I like, even if they do bloom only once, where are they to be planted? I am 67 and it is hard to read this plan. How did they make this decision? Was anyone from forestry there? What does Remarks: B&B mean? Forgive me for being skeptical, but was "B&B" already selected to supply the trees, and they presented based on their inventory?

* * *

I don't see anything east of Fairfield except the beginning of a large circle with markings I can't decipher. The area would be part of I-90. Nothing is indicated for the part of W. 14th that descends to Abbey. That is the stretch I was speaking of.
 
I don't know how the residents were chosen for the workshop. I haven't seen a preliminary advice as to what trees were chosen on my behalf. I haven't looked up all the trees chosen.
 
--But I can tell you that it is my understanding that the horrible "helicopter" seeds are from maples. I have been having to pull up many little seedlings daily from my enclosed back garden and front area. They litter the sidewalk.
 
--I just looked up golden raintree and found that it sheds many seeds that sprout at the drop of a hat and is considered invasive.
 
--On crabapple I found: "Crabapple tree diseases can cause ugly and hazardous conditions in the most beautiful of planned landscape designs. One bacterial and four fungal diseases cause most crabapple leaf and fruit discoloration and eventual fall. Branches become bare, sometimes with only a few dry leaves remaining. Tree disfiguration or death can result when these crabapple diseases are relentless for many years. Filthy leaves and contaminated fruit usually litter areas surrounding infected trees. This debris can cause dangerous and ugly conditions for walking and leisure activities. What starts as a fine-looking and attractive landscape area can become unacceptable and impractical for its original use.  Initial infection takes place in warm, humid weather around blossom time. Failure to cleanup mummified apples and canker-infested dead wood allows disease-spreading spores to overwinter. I doubt if ODOT is going to come along and clean up the fallen crabapples.

 
--Oaks are native to Mediterranean, winter-wet, summer-dry climate. During the winter, when the ground is wet from rain, the soil temperature is relatively low, and that lower temperature keeps disease from developing. However, if oaks get watered in the summer, when temperatures are high, oak root fungus (Armillaria mellea) can occur in the warm, wet conditions, to which the tree roots are very susceptible. This fungus enters the oak's roots and usually kills the tree slowly over several years. Even after a dead tree is gone, the disease can remain in the soil, attacking other susceptible plants.
 
--Because of their smog tolerance, lindens make good street trees, but they may attract spring aphids that drip honeydew on cars parked underneath.
 
Since each resident along the route and the block clubs were requested to decide about the sound barriers, I think that they should be advised directly of these choices, allowed input and then final approval in order to truly have majority approval of plantings. My quick Internet search shows problems on some. Others, like the littleleaf linden, would be fine depending on where they were planted (not near residents' cars.) I would like rugosas to be added.
 
The green litter here is from the "helicopters." They sprout like crazy. The wooden fence is pushed out in areas by trees that grew between the wooden fence and the chain link fence where they couldn't be mowed. (Picture, which I haven't uploaded to Photobucket, so can't post here, was inserted to show the sidewalk covered with the green things.)

* * *

Thank you for your interest in the vegetative screening for the Innerbelt Bridge project.    Last November, we had a workshop at the Tremont West Development Corporation (TDWC) Office with TDWC staff and residents interested in the proposed vegetative screening in lieu of noise barriers.   From that workshop, the residents requested the following species be used:  sugar maple, hawthorne, honey locust, golden rain tree, crabapple, oak, littleleaf linden, austrian pine, blue spruce, lilac, and viburnum.    A preliminary plan was prepared and is attached for your review.

Fortunately, the public involvement is continuing throughout the life of this project.   The Design Build Team that is chosen to complete the project will be tasked to prepare exhibits of the landscaping plan and present them to the public for review and comment.    Information on when and how to review the plan will come through the Tremont West Development Corporation.   Changes to plant species to be used is still possible, provided it is the majority of the residents' preference to do so.     ODOT will request that TWDC make/approve the final decision on which plant species to use.

At this time, I must decline the invitation to see your roses.  Please continue to provide your comments to me and to the TWDC as all public comments area considered and can influence the outcome of the project.

Thank you,

Mark Alan Carpenter, P.E.
District 12 Environmental Engineer
(216) 584-2089

* * *

Last year, the residents along W. 14th voted against the "walls" as sound barriers and in favor of "trees." Only a few weeks ago, while looking at "rose porn" at some of my preferred vendors of old garden roses, I started wondering if it needed to be trees. Why not rugosa roses? I wrote the co-chairs of my block club and sent the email below to the head of the Tremont Development West.
 
In perusing the internet trying unsuccessfully to find answers to my questions and a drawing/schema/blueprint for the W. 14th and Abbey intersection, I ran across your name. Perhaps you can answer my questions.
 
It is a bit late to invite you, but please see if you can fit in a short visit to my small old garden rose garden with its exceedingly fragrant roses few people ever get the chance to see and its underplantings so that I seldom need to weed. They are not rugosas, whose height and thorns wouldn't fit my small space, but they will give you the idea I am trying to convey. .. I am always happy to show off my garden whenever roses are blooming, however. Just call me to be sure I won't be in the shower or out in the garden and unable to hear you turning the bell in the center of my door.

Dear Chris,
 
I would like to share with you a portion of an email I sent the co-chairs of the  North of Literary Block Club a few days ago. I hope this vision blooms rather than boring trees that shed troublesome seeds. It need not be my little stretch that is lined with blooming, fragrant, trouble-free shrubs, underplanted with perennial, fragrant herbs that do not need mowing and perhaps even plants and vines that provide edible berries for collection, a beautiful and sensory sight, a botany lesson, and a source for kitchens. How green can you get?
 
Other areas could also use rugosas; or lilacs, which can grow quite high if untrimmed or be a dwarf variety; or fruit trees or a mix.
 
Tremont, could be not just "The Garden City," but the "Fragrant, Green Garden City."
 
My message:
I don't know how the new bridge will affect this area, and would like to know. In addition, I would like to give input to the trees for our stretch. I don't want trees that litter, like the cottonwood, mulberries, and whatever sends those horrid winged seeds that sprout everywhere. What exactly are their requirements? How tall, how wide, what? Who decides? The height should descend as they near Abbey, so as to allow us a clear, unobstructed view of oncoming traffic from Abbey as we back out of W. 13th PL. We can see through the chain link fence. We couldn't see through or around a tree.
 
Does it HAVE to be a tree? For example rugosa roses are very tough. hardy, need no spraying, many have an intense scent, and have the benefit of blooms and then hips for the birds. Noted British rosarian Peter Beales says in CLASSIC ROSES "They are invariably healthy, will grow almost anywhere without mollycoddling, and provide flowers throughout most of the summer. They are becoming increasingly popular as subjects for massed planting in parks, as barriers for motorways and as trouble-free screens for factories."
 
Imagine the stretch from Fairfield to Abbey, lined with fragrant roses in bloom, underplanted with perennials and fragrant herbs! Once established, people would drive into the city to see it. It could be under planted so that the schools could use it for botany study and even so Sr. Corita and others could gather food from there.
 
Here is an example of a rugosa, which, if you click on the tab Buy From, you will see has the advantage of being available from Rose Fire Ltd., an Ohio nursery specializing in own root roses, which do not lose their vigor after a number of years like grafted ones do. They and the other small specialist nurseries would no doubt be happy to advise and to grow and hold for several years roses purchased in advance, thus insuring that the roses wanted would be available and of a good size whenever they are to be planted. This would help small, specialist nurseries. Edit: On second thought, the way small businesses are going out of business, I'd suggest buying them and growing them yourself or have a contractor do it if ODOT has no greenhouse facilities. These will come in small "bands" and must be grown to at least a five gallon size I'd think, so should be purchased in advanced.
 
http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.5492&tab=1 (HelpMeFind says it has occasional repeat later in the season, but Peter Beales says "is almost constantly in flower," and Rogue Valley Roses indicates good rebloom and very good fragrance.  http://www.roguevalleyroses.com/product_info.php?products_id=677 )
 
I myself would like to have this one, also available from Rose fire, near Abbey and my home.
http://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=2.1292&tab=16
 
and this one, from Vintage Gardens only http://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=2.5564&tab=1
 
This one http://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=2.4307 reaches only three feet in height, so would be good as the road approaches Abbey, where the vision from W. 13th PL should not be obstructed. Something like the Lavender Simplicity rose might do for the final approach. http://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=2.38295.2
 
For planting in front, no grass. Plant sweet woodruff, which would not need to be mowed.  Hardy, low growing perennial herbs, such as sweet marjoram, thyme, oregano, etc. could also be used as ground cover. Ever-blooming bleeding heart with its lacy foliage and non-stop blooms would add visual appeal. Annual nigella, which self seeds could be used. Some mulch would help in the early years.
 
It probably wouldn't happen, but I read of people buying ground cherries at specialty farmer's markets in other cities, yet these grow wild in some areas in Ohio. Plant them so they grow in this stretch. Also, I've read that the Chinese wolfberries with their many incredible health benefits can grow here and may grow huge vines. No doubt there are other perennial or "wild" food sources that could be added. Sister Corita, among others, could collect herbs and cherries and berries. Students at the Montessori School could come for botany study.
 
(Yes, I have links for the ground cherries and wolfberries, but thought I'd given you quite enough links to click and, besides, they aren't as pretty.)
 
I would appreciate your presenting my ideas about the planting to the Block Club and the top people in charge of making the decision. People can email me.
 
Thank you.

Good Morning OldroserI was

Good Morning Oldroser

I was very happy to see your post here.  I apologize for not getting back to you after your last e-mail.  I'm sort of behind with my responses.

You have a number of valid concerns and some great input here.  I did take a look at the link to rose porn you provided and really enjoyed looking at all the beautiful roses.   While roses are one of my favorite flowers and other than the everyday garden variety, I don't know a whole lot about them.  

There is someone who is currently interested in utilizing his family's property on Professor Avenue as a green space and urban garden location - perhaps he would consider using some of your extras plants in his design plan.   

I will be by to see your garden one day next week if you're available.  I have several meetings going on this week so am cramped for time.  I am so glad you contacted me through RealNeo.  

If you would ever like to attend the North of Literary Block Club and need assistance in getting there, I would be more than happy to assist you as well as getting to any of the other meetings you might be interested in.  Of course, there are a lot of behing the scenes meeting that we the community folks aren't privy to.  

You are so 100% right about Tremont West making decisions without taking into consideration the entire community resident's input or opinions.  During the past year TWDC has lost 40% or more of it's membership, technically leaving them representing only approximately 4% of the Tremont population.  Most decisions are made and based on the votes, wishes and wants of the majority of that meager percentage (which amounts to less than 250 people) with little to no consideration for the other 96% of those living in this community.   Not at all a fair and balanced representation of the neighborhoods best interest.

I've brought this up for months and pointed out the fact that everybody in Tremont should have a voice - I haven't gotten very far.  If you divide up the number of members in the TWDC roster between the 10 block clubs - your come out with an average of 50 per block club area - and many of the approx. 521 members do not belong to or attend block club meetings - with most of the meetings being nothing but a farce anyway.  Whenever an important issue comes up and a vote is called for - the powers that be stack the meetings and then you never see them again for months and even years.  Relying on block club vote, support and endorsement as a basis for making decisions is a crock.

Will see you soon.

 

 

Rose canes-ODOT walls

  Thank you Ms. Hinkle for joining the forum here.  I second your proposal for rose bushes, beautiful and tough--too tough for ODOT. 

As someone who did landscape grunt work--I can tell you one major drawback to roses--is retrieving trash that gets blown into the canes.  But, it's not a deal breaker. 

As you said--Britain uses roses effectively.  The problem you face is a lack of imagination in the folks who decide how to address a problem.  There is no creativity in government--just a cookie cutter mentality.

Please keep us posted here--we have had absolutely no update on the proposed ODOT walls for Brooklyn Centre. Just deafening silence (Councilman Cummins).

It's our $$$.  I applaud your activism and for finding a voice here at REALNEO.

 

sound barrier

I saw an announcement a few months ago that the sound barrier wall construction from W. 25th to Fulton would start in June and be completed in August. The announcement was just that, without further description.

Walls Fulton-West 25th

DWebb--

where did you see the announcement?  Are we getting the fake red brick walls?  I hope that they are at least consistent with the big graft $$$ walls that have already gone up along I-71.  Really--how much of our money went into these contractors' pockets??  No one says anything. 

you're just too intelligent, oldroser - you scare the "leaders"

 you're just too intelligent, oldroser. unfortunately, much more so than our "leaders"- you scare them. I wish they were smart enough to take note and to listen, but unfortunately they think that will tarnish their appearance as "leaders"

It's a shame.

I have my front bed planted with roses, two of them rugosas and underplanted with munstead lavender. other than pulling a very few stray weeds and sparse mulching, the bed is practically carefree and sO beautiful!

welcome to the forum! your post is appreciated - very informative - thank you!

Header Photo Credit - Oldroser

New realNEO member Oldroser sent me the beautiful photo of her roses featured in the header today, as a gift for helping her remove barriers to her realNEO account (first gift I've received for helping with realNEO) - thank you for taking a fresh look at barriers in our community, Oldroser and welcome to realNEO!

Disrupt IT

aren't they just

aren't they just georgeous.  I surely must put Oldroser in contact with tremontsoul. 

beautiful roses

cool header