Am I being a bully here, saying this advertising must go? Is it rude or bullying to bring this to public attention? The Cavs are important to the economy - so are the Gunds and CMA - should I just shut up if something like this involves important people?
I think your question is misleading, by using the term "bully" without a clear definition.
I think the question would be better asked "What is a bully":
"There is a Midrash (Midrash Hagadol, Leviticus 19:14) that states that individuals who "strengthen the hand of sinners" or assist others to commit a misdeed have transgressed the prohibition against "placing a stumbling block before the blind." One might argue that remaining quiet in the face of evil, i.e., not blowing the whistle on iniquities, strengthens the hand of wrongdoers.
Nehama Leibowitz (1983, p. 178), the renowned Bible teacher, offers the widest extension of the law:
"But the Torah teaches us that even by sitting at home doing nothing, by complete passivity and divorcement from society, one cannot shake off responsibility for what is transpiring in the world at large, for the iniquity, violence and evil there. By not protesting, "not marking the graves" and danger spots, you have become responsible for any harm arising therefrom, and have violated the prohibition: "Thou shalt not put a stumbling block before the blind…" link
Clearly, by these standards ignoring an ignoramus is nOT an act of kindness.
When does a strong, independent person with a loud, clear voice and important message, become charged with the accusation of being a bully?
I am not trying to answer the question--anyone is free to answer it as they see fit--which is why it is posted as a poll. But, given the recent attention to this behavior on all media levels and in our education system. I think it warrants some thought and discussion, which is why I have posted it here.
Unfortunately, I don't think that it is a behavior we will ever eradicate. Personally, I have been accused of the behavior. But, as pointed out--if the behavior has an opposite behavior--it has been called passivity.
the fundamental of bullying is a person with no core. They have little self-esteem, little awareness of others (empathy), they are entirely self-centered. Frequently, they bully to no real gain on their part, but it gives them a feeling of power.
They lack the ability to sound a clarion call for the benefit of all, or to introduce consequences to corral a wayward friend -i.e. they'll "put up with" truly bothersome bad behavior of a "friend" but talk about them mercilessly behind their back.
Sometimes it takes real balls to tell someone they are being an asshole and to take steps to protect others from his behavior. But which response is truly motivated out of concern for the offensive "friend"? Which might result in the offensive "friend" actually learning and changing their ways?
the fundamental of bullying is a person with no core. They have little self-esteem, little awareness of others (empathy), they are entirely self-centered. Frequently, they bully to no real gain on their part, but it gives them a feeling of power.
They lack the ability to sound a clarion call for the benefit of all, or to introduce consequences to corral a wayward friend -i.e. they'll "put up with" truly bothersome bad behavior of a "friend" but talk about them mercilessly behind their back.
Sometimes it takes real balls to tell someone they are being an asshole and to take steps to protect others from his behavior. But which response is truly motivated out of concern for the offensive "friend"? Which might result in the offensive "friend" actually learning and changing their ways?
I am just thinking out loud here. I have relished REALNEO as an opportunity to confront bullys. We all know the feeling of being bullied. Let me just leave it at that. Gotta go :)
Submitted by Norm Roulet on Sun, 05/09/2010 - 13:55.
With Claus turning 5 he is surrounded by high energy largely well meaning but often self absorbed and mean-seeming kids - I feel the same way in life, nearing 50.
Now knowing more about lead poisoning and how it impacts kids and adults here - and Claues isn't the only lead poisoned kid in his class and I'm not the only lead poisoned adult in our community - I realize the concept of Bully I grew up with is complete bullshit - my view was the Our Gang bully who is the big kid who is strongest and so always can beat up who he chooses. That is not true - the bully is largely the most damaged kid, acting out on whomever he/she may, largely harming the other most damaged kids least able to respond and react properly - they are all victims of industry and society, expressing their damage at young ages and not getting proper treatment as they grow old.
Their parents may be harmed as well. Society is certainly harmed, and does not know what it is doing to address these problems, and so is labelling children with adult, historical concepts that ignore science.
I see that adult failure from talking to educators here, who want to raise my chuildren and the 1,000s others here lead poisoned each year as though the only problem with the kids is they are wrong. That system and those educators are the ones who are wrong, trying to bully kids into learing with the wrong tools, wrong treachers, and wrong understandings of the fundamental building blocks of these children's futures.
Bullies and their victims are the most damaged children in society, raised wrong, resulting in damaged adults.
Submitted by ANGELnWard14 on Sun, 05/09/2010 - 15:19.
As a child, I was bullied by ghetto kids... whose parents taught them to dish it out with their fists and with pushing others around with their loud mouths.
As an adult, I find it humorous to run into those same bullies who have since turned out to be less than desirable adults and their lives are full of chaos and reckless choices based on many ignorances formulated under their generational learnings.
I find it sad that when we were kids, their parents empowered their bullying and defended it as being "STREET SMART"...
In retrospect, I suppose that being street smart was speculatively significant as we do live in one brutally corrupt region...and it's get up and fight or eat the shit that is dished out to you....So which side of the fence did we choose?
Well, I watched the police allow domestic violence to be approved of while sending mommy to the women's shelters-b/c daddy paid the bills.... I watched them same cops sit and have a cup of coffee with my daddy while my mother grovelled after taking her beating for speaking up...
(BTW.....thanks second district cops for sitting at Westpark Cemetary for hours on end babysitting my dead brother and many other family members, but it's like 37 years too late to save his life!!!)
Yep...saw tons in my childhood that would make any human being hate Cleveland. His murderer got 30 DAYS IN THE WORKHOUSE WITH WEEKENDS OFF-FOR BEATING A 3 YEAR OLD CHILD TO DEATH-KICKING HIS PRIVATES UP INTO HIS RIB CAGE!!!! So, thanks to all the judges and politically connected who empowered such an unreal decision of justice to be effectuated on my family. Go to hell and rot-every person who ever portrayed such injustices on citizens of our community.
STAND UP AND BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE YOU JERKS....
WHAT THE HECK CLEVELAND??????
YOUR DEAF EARS, BLIND EYES, AND HEADS TURNED TO CORRUPTION IS A DISGRACE WHICH NEEDS TO CEASE!!!!
My cup overflows with being bullied to keep my mouth shut about the tyranny of injustices portrayed upon the citizens of Cleveland, Ohio by those who are too lazy, corrupt, and derilict to do their jobs effectively...other than to retaliate at the whistleblowers.
I watch the cops who wave as they drive down our streets and who actually care enough to get involved beyond the norms- and then I watch the lard asses who couldn't chase a criminal if their lives depended on it who snicker and laugh at the idea of the small citizens getting justice. I try to respect the uniforms... but it is sometimes hard to call a commander and praise the good works of many...when a few disgust you so bad that it makes you want to puick.
Look, I think Commander Sulzer is doing a great job and sticking his neck out here in this community in multiple directions to invest into our community-but then there's his staff--- and those folks should really know that our citizens deserve a lot better than their burnt out, "I don't want to do the paperwork" attitudes.... Yep, we catch those grimaces on your faces when you bully us with your "Do I really have to do my job?" attitudes.... we want to trust and depend that you have our best interests and concerns at heart...but you defeat us at your doors.
Personally speaking, I should HATE police...but I don't hate them... I am grateful for their public service... I have found that telling them the facts and dealing with situations head on can sometimes prevent long term problems and court cases. I have found that joining community relations is a positive thing that all of our citizens should be invited to partake in.
But most importantly, as this was supposed to be about BULLIES.... I shall summarize this idea....
Being a Bully about the rights of life, standing up for what is justifiable, and protecting the rights of others often requires the skills of a BULLY....they work to threaten us, to intimidate us, and to squelch our efforts to overcome EVIL...and if that's the case, then I guess I'll work to be a bully back to those who have violated the rights of the citizens of our community...
Bullies to the rescue!!!! Let's all work to build a stronger community and rid the negatives.... Let's empower our people with all the assets available to them and let's stop empowering the wrongdoers to sustain their behaviors by derailing them at the helm!
Submitted by Norm Roulet on Sun, 05/09/2010 - 15:40.
Bullies to the rescue!!!! My thinking was along the same lines - as the definition shows, this is a term that has mutated over time with us.
A friend told me a story about her grandmother who was bullied by her husband all her life - brutalized - and one day when they got very old and he was no longer strong enough to beat her she beat the crap out of him. And that is what he took to his grave.
Bullies and their victims are the most damaged children in society, raised wrong, resulting in damaged adults.
I personally feel that many of the "leaders" we have today in NEO were the victims of bullies as children--their immoral behavior today is self-justified as their revenge for feeling powerless as children. That's just me. No one has to agree.
But, I would, for once, like to find a leader in NEO, who does not act like a bully--and who finds a way to work for the benefit of all.
Submitted by Norm Roulet on Sun, 05/09/2010 - 17:39.
I grew up around some mean kids who would have bullied me if I let them, but I was self confident and so I always stood up for myself - fought if I needed to , even if I knew I might loose - and avoided trouble and did my own thing if possible - my parents didn't raise me to fight, but they didn't rise me to put up with injustice. Luckily, in my time and place, none of the bullies had knives or guns (one kid who was bullied made bombs, and I always worried he would blow something up).
Each bully is different.
Real management consultants often need to be bullies on the job - real MFs - and good, lucky ones get to be bullies for good reasons... force policy or process changes to save enterprises and jobs - force people to change their ways or get fired. Lots nicer bulling people to change than firing them.
bullying isn't always physical, In fact, some of the most pervasive and insidious abuse can be psychological.
And I don't buy the victim goes on to perpetrate. Anyone watch the movie "slingblade"? a true story.
I think we have a responsibility to evolve as much as we have a responsibility to call out fucked up behavior. Both are equally important and anyone who fails at either only continues and furthers the cycle.
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Is it rude or bullying to bring this to public attention?
Am I being a bully here?
Am I being a bully here, saying this advertising must go? Is it rude or bullying to bring this to public attention? The Cavs are important to the economy - so are the Gunds and CMA - should I just shut up if something like this involves important people?
Disrupt IT
I think your question is misleading
I think your question is misleading, by using the term "bully" without a clear definition.
I think the question would be better asked "What is a bully":
"There is a Midrash (Midrash Hagadol, Leviticus 19:14) that states that individuals who "strengthen the hand of sinners" or assist others to commit a misdeed have transgressed the prohibition against "placing a stumbling block before the blind." One might argue that remaining quiet in the face of evil, i.e., not blowing the whistle on iniquities, strengthens the hand of wrongdoers.
Nehama Leibowitz (1983, p. 178), the renowned Bible teacher, offers the widest extension of the law:
"But the Torah teaches us that even by sitting at home doing nothing, by complete passivity and divorcement from society, one cannot shake off responsibility for what is transpiring in the world at large, for the iniquity, violence and evil there. By not protesting, "not marking the graves" and danger spots, you have become responsible for any harm arising therefrom, and have violated the prohibition: "Thou shalt not put a stumbling block before the blind…" link
Clearly, by these standards ignoring an ignoramus is nOT an act of kindness.
Poll
Poll question-clarification--I think that society has generally defined bullying as a bad thing.
But the level of this behavior and characteristics of the behavior has changed dramatically--and has been exacerbated by texting, chat and Internet communication.
When does a strong, independent person with a loud, clear voice and important message, become charged with the accusation of being a bully?
I am not trying to answer the question--anyone is free to answer it as they see fit--which is why it is posted as a poll. But, given the recent attention to this behavior on all media levels and in our education system. I think it warrants some thought and discussion, which is why I have posted it here.
Unfortunately, I don't think that it is a behavior we will ever eradicate. Personally, I have been accused of the behavior. But, as pointed out--if the behavior has an opposite behavior--it has been called passivity.
again, I disagree
the fundamental of bullying is a person with no core. They have little self-esteem, little awareness of others (empathy), they are entirely self-centered. Frequently, they bully to no real gain on their part, but it gives them a feeling of power.
They lack the ability to sound a clarion call for the benefit of all, or to introduce consequences to corral a wayward friend -i.e. they'll "put up with" truly bothersome bad behavior of a "friend" but talk about them mercilessly behind their back.
Sometimes it takes real balls to tell someone they are being an asshole and to take steps to protect others from his behavior. But which response is truly motivated out of concern for the offensive "friend"? Which might result in the offensive "friend" actually learning and changing their ways?
This ain't high math.
again, I disagree
the fundamental of bullying is a person with no core. They have little self-esteem, little awareness of others (empathy), they are entirely self-centered. Frequently, they bully to no real gain on their part, but it gives them a feeling of power.
They lack the ability to sound a clarion call for the benefit of all, or to introduce consequences to corral a wayward friend -i.e. they'll "put up with" truly bothersome bad behavior of a "friend" but talk about them mercilessly behind their back.
Sometimes it takes real balls to tell someone they are being an asshole and to take steps to protect others from his behavior. But which response is truly motivated out of concern for the offensive "friend"? Which might result in the offensive "friend" actually learning and changing their ways?
This ain't high math.
Confronting bullys
I am just thinking out loud here. I have relished REALNEO as an opportunity to confront bullys. We all know the feeling of being bullied. Let me just leave it at that. Gotta go :)
I'm really watching for bullies these days
With Claus turning 5 he is surrounded by high energy largely well meaning but often self absorbed and mean-seeming kids - I feel the same way in life, nearing 50.
Now knowing more about lead poisoning and how it impacts kids and adults here - and Claues isn't the only lead poisoned kid in his class and I'm not the only lead poisoned adult in our community - I realize the concept of Bully I grew up with is complete bullshit - my view was the Our Gang bully who is the big kid who is strongest and so always can beat up who he chooses. That is not true - the bully is largely the most damaged kid, acting out on whomever he/she may, largely harming the other most damaged kids least able to respond and react properly - they are all victims of industry and society, expressing their damage at young ages and not getting proper treatment as they grow old.
Their parents may be harmed as well. Society is certainly harmed, and does not know what it is doing to address these problems, and so is labelling children with adult, historical concepts that ignore science.
I see that adult failure from talking to educators here, who want to raise my chuildren and the 1,000s others here lead poisoned each year as though the only problem with the kids is they are wrong. That system and those educators are the ones who are wrong, trying to bully kids into learing with the wrong tools, wrong treachers, and wrong understandings of the fundamental building blocks of these children's futures.
Bullies and their victims are the most damaged children in society, raised wrong, resulting in damaged adults.
Disrupt IT
Bullies to the rescue in Cleveland!!!
As a child, I was bullied by ghetto kids... whose parents taught them to dish it out with their fists and with pushing others around with their loud mouths.
As an adult, I find it humorous to run into those same bullies who have since turned out to be less than desirable adults and their lives are full of chaos and reckless choices based on many ignorances formulated under their generational learnings.
I find it sad that when we were kids, their parents empowered their bullying and defended it as being "STREET SMART"...
In retrospect, I suppose that being street smart was speculatively significant as we do live in one brutally corrupt region...and it's get up and fight or eat the shit that is dished out to you....So which side of the fence did we choose?
Well, I watched the police allow domestic violence to be approved of while sending mommy to the women's shelters-b/c daddy paid the bills.... I watched them same cops sit and have a cup of coffee with my daddy while my mother grovelled after taking her beating for speaking up...
(BTW.....thanks second district cops for sitting at Westpark Cemetary for hours on end babysitting my dead brother and many other family members, but it's like 37 years too late to save his life!!!)
Yep...saw tons in my childhood that would make any human being hate Cleveland. His murderer got 30 DAYS IN THE WORKHOUSE WITH WEEKENDS OFF-FOR BEATING A 3 YEAR OLD CHILD TO DEATH-KICKING HIS PRIVATES UP INTO HIS RIB CAGE!!!! So, thanks to all the judges and politically connected who empowered such an unreal decision of justice to be effectuated on my family. Go to hell and rot-every person who ever portrayed such injustices on citizens of our community.
STAND UP AND BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE YOU JERKS....
WHAT THE HECK CLEVELAND??????
YOUR DEAF EARS, BLIND EYES, AND HEADS TURNED TO CORRUPTION IS A DISGRACE WHICH NEEDS TO CEASE!!!!
My cup overflows with being bullied to keep my mouth shut about the tyranny of injustices portrayed upon the citizens of Cleveland, Ohio by those who are too lazy, corrupt, and derilict to do their jobs effectively...other than to retaliate at the whistleblowers.
I watch the cops who wave as they drive down our streets and who actually care enough to get involved beyond the norms- and then I watch the lard asses who couldn't chase a criminal if their lives depended on it who snicker and laugh at the idea of the small citizens getting justice. I try to respect the uniforms... but it is sometimes hard to call a commander and praise the good works of many...when a few disgust you so bad that it makes you want to puick.
Look, I think Commander Sulzer is doing a great job and sticking his neck out here in this community in multiple directions to invest into our community-but then there's his staff--- and those folks should really know that our citizens deserve a lot better than their burnt out, "I don't want to do the paperwork" attitudes.... Yep, we catch those grimaces on your faces when you bully us with your "Do I really have to do my job?" attitudes.... we want to trust and depend that you have our best interests and concerns at heart...but you defeat us at your doors.
Personally speaking, I should HATE police...but I don't hate them... I am grateful for their public service... I have found that telling them the facts and dealing with situations head on can sometimes prevent long term problems and court cases. I have found that joining community relations is a positive thing that all of our citizens should be invited to partake in.
But most importantly, as this was supposed to be about BULLIES.... I shall summarize this idea....
Being a Bully about the rights of life, standing up for what is justifiable, and protecting the rights of others often requires the skills of a BULLY....they work to threaten us, to intimidate us, and to squelch our efforts to overcome EVIL...and if that's the case, then I guess I'll work to be a bully back to those who have violated the rights of the citizens of our community...
Bullies to the rescue!!!! Let's all work to build a stronger community and rid the negatives.... Let's empower our people with all the assets available to them and let's stop empowering the wrongdoers to sustain their behaviors by derailing them at the helm!
Bullies to the rescue!!!!
Bullies to the rescue!!!! My thinking was along the same lines - as the definition shows, this is a term that has mutated over time with us.
A friend told me a story about her grandmother who was bullied by her husband all her life - brutalized - and one day when they got very old and he was no longer strong enough to beat her she beat the crap out of him. And that is what he took to his grave.
Disrupt IT
Bullied
Bullies and their victims are the most damaged children in society, raised wrong, resulting in damaged adults.
I personally feel that many of the "leaders" we have today in NEO were the victims of bullies as children--their immoral behavior today is self-justified as their revenge for feeling powerless as children. That's just me. No one has to agree.
But, I would, for once, like to find a leader in NEO, who does not act like a bully--and who finds a way to work for the benefit of all.
I grew up around some mean kids
I grew up around some mean kids who would have bullied me if I let them, but I was self confident and so I always stood up for myself - fought if I needed to , even if I knew I might loose - and avoided trouble and did my own thing if possible - my parents didn't raise me to fight, but they didn't rise me to put up with injustice. Luckily, in my time and place, none of the bullies had knives or guns (one kid who was bullied made bombs, and I always worried he would blow something up).
Each bully is different.
Real management consultants often need to be bullies on the job - real MFs - and good, lucky ones get to be bullies for good reasons... force policy or process changes to save enterprises and jobs - force people to change their ways or get fired. Lots nicer bulling people to change than firing them.
Disrupt IT
bullying isn't always physical
bullying isn't always physical, In fact, some of the most pervasive and insidious abuse can be psychological.
And I don't buy the victim goes on to perpetrate. Anyone watch the movie "slingblade"? a true story.
I think we have a responsibility to evolve as much as we have a responsibility to call out fucked up behavior. Both are equally important and anyone who fails at either only continues and furthers the cycle.