DENNIS VOTES THE WAY VOINOVICH WILL - NO

Submitted by Roldo on Mon, 11/09/2009 - 14:46.

Ran into an old friend this morning at University Hospital where we older people are likely to meet. Boy was she angry. At Dennis Kucinich, a favorite of hers.

 

Kucinich, as you may have noted, vote NO on the health care bill the other night. He gave good reasons. It squeaked in by a couple of votes. So his NO vote was a typical Kucinich vote.

 

But this fan said she had given him her last dime. And I’m sure she’s given him a lot more than that.

 

I don’t know if Kucinich would have voted NO if his was a deciding vote. Maybe not.

 

But his NO vote isn’t a surprise to me. Kucinich is playing to the crowd. His crowd. And he’s a hero with his crowd.

 

They respond. They love the little fighter. Kucinich drew immediate attention on the local Cleveland Leader web site. Today there are nearly 7,500 hits on the posting about his vote. Most I’ve ever seen. I assume that many people around the nation have Dennis Kucinich on a Google alert. Every time his name appears they get a Google alert.  They click and read about their hero.  

 

It attests to his national drawing power as a political celebrity.

 

I can’t find fault with his desire for more comprehensive health care. However, where’s the magic wand that will get us there? Does he have it? Of course not.

 

We take baby steps, unfortunately. Some can argue that that’s the problem; we never get to adult steps. What we actually need.

 

Dennis has always played to his crowd, a limited crowd to be sure.

 

However, the image that clicks to my mind is a State of the Union speech during the George Bush years. I cannot get out of my mind a smiling, seemingly elated Kucinich, hand extended. To George Bush.

 

 

 

 

 

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I don't know Roldo -

 I understand your argument - but I understand his too.

we sell out way too much - like a woman who stays with a real jerk for a boyfriend, because she's afraid she'll never get better. not a gOOd choice... same concept.

selling out has its limits.

Kucinich, like Nader, is true to his convictions

I have not always agreed with Ralph Nader, but I've always admired and respected his position(s).  The man stays true to his convictions, no matter what.  And as well, the same can be said of Dennis Kucinich.

Dennis, like Nader, does come off a little loopy and idealistic, and yet he remains a person of integrity.  Words that can be said of another leftist visionary, The Honorable Cynthia McKinney--former Georgia Congresswoman, who like Kucinich and Nader, has consistently railed against the evils of Anglo-Israeli Imperialism, cut-throat capitalism, corporate cronyism, slave-wage poverty, union-busting, the cover-up of Operation 911 and the corporate-military-media-pharmaceutical-industrialist complex from day one--consistently with no apologies.

Now there's something we need more of!

Still, none of these people should be idolized or worshiped, for they are not Gods.  Instead what they are, are American heroes who have earned and deserve full respect.  Absolutely!

Eternity

kucinich

I know that you have never fully appreciated Kucinich, Roldo, and while I don't know the why's of that, I will respect that you have reasons that bring you to this stand. I have had my share of disagreements with Kucinich, especially over title X funds for women in other countries. He finally saw the light, but a lot of damage was done.  He also voted to impeach Bill Clinton in what was clearly a farce. So he has had his moments of stupidity and I can bet that you can point out more. It is hard to imagine the guy who came up with the department of peace approaching Bush with open arms, though. That is a subjective interpretation that is over the top. 

All things considered, I rather Kucinich vote no on a bill that he believes does a disservice to the future of this country. I'd have to say that I admire the politcos that have the backbone to stay with their convictions unless they are right wing Republicans. 

I've had a lot of 

I've had a lot of  experience with Dennis. I like him personally and very much admire some of the difficult stands that he's made. I often defended him during that awful two-year period when he was mayor. But I also criticized him when I thought he was wrong and it was necessary to say so.

I think what I wrote was rather mild. This is such an important issue, not only for those who don't have coverage and who have pre-existing medical conditions, but to the presidency of Obama. The Republicans are not just trying to defeat a health bill they are trying to  bring down a president, just as they did with Bill Clinton. Votes have to be made with those factors in mind, not just with an amendment a Congressman wants.

 

at the end of the day, Roldo

 at the end of the day, Roldo, you are right as usual. I missed the very salient point of the whole picture vs. the amendment and popular standing. Thank you for clarifying. I think that it all does tie in together, the loss of two governships and even the crappy outcome of the state and local issues here. This is a repeat of the history that gave us Reagan. The emotions are being flamed by the right wingers, people are buying it, and if the Democrats return to the pre-Dean disarray, Obama will fall.

Kucinich

Kucinich voted NO on the health care bill. 

Ask him to explain the sell-out and the high-minded, principle behind that.

Cummins

Cummins voted YES to keep Martin Sweeney as Council President. 

Ask him to explain the sell-out and the high-minded, principle behind that.

Cummins

  I am not a Cummins defender, but you are a Kucinich defender....their actions speak loud enough.

And...what exactly does Brian Cummins have to do with Kucinich...anyway...?  Is this supposed to be a debate?
 

Disgusted

  FTR, I am disgusted in both politicians...their votes are deplorable.  Also for the record--John Conyers, co-sponsor of the Conyers-Kucinich Health Care Plan--voted YES.

Protectionism and other lame rationalizations for coddling

Obama does not need to be coddled.  And of this, which Roldo and oh so many others seems to think is justifiable to treat Obama like their boyfriend instead of the President of this nation, for FEAR of the big-bad-wolf Republicans huffing and puffing and blowing our flimsy-ass Democratic door down.  In so far as, Roldo recently wrote in a prior comment here "This is such an important issue...to the presidency of Obama. The Republicans are not just trying to defeat a health bill they are trying to  bring down a president", at what point does it become acceptable for one to dissent within one's own family--party?  And...hey, doesn't that kind of mentality seem a bit herdish--like we're all supposed to be slap-happy with tags in our ears milling around like a bunch of penned up sheep?

Hello???? This is textbook, dysfunctional family behaior, and I have no interest in it. 

I support Obama--voting for him and will again in 2012--and I support Kucinich, whom I would have voted for if I lived in Ohio. 

Dissent, not fear, is a healthy, essential part of democracy.  And I admire and respect anyone who is willing to break away from the heard, like Cao the sole Republican who voted in support of the House's healthcare bill, in order to take a stand for what they believe, especially if it means raising the bar--challenging ourselves to higher standards.

People blamed Nader in 2000, though I actually voted for Gore, for costing the Democrats the election.  What a load of shit!  Nader did nothing wrong, but Bush sure did steal a hell of a lot of votes, primarily by disenfranchising Blacks.  Though of course, it didn't hurt that his pappy had already stacked the deck of the Supreme Court--voting in his favor, and that his brother was the governor of the state in question--Florida.  And it didn't hurt either that his cousin was working at FOX News, declaring Bush the winner, even before the election was to be over.

So, lets get this blame game right.

OBAMA VOWED IN MANY OF HIS PRE-ELECTION SPEECHES THAT HE WOULD FIGHT FOR SINGLE-PAYER HEALTHCARE.  So, why in the hell don't we blame him for being a fu*king wuss, instead of henpecking Kucinich to death for holding the President accountable?

Can I get an amen up-in-here?

But let me say this, at the end of the day, I'm grateful for both Obama and Kucinich, because even on their worst days, they are a hell of a lot better than the criminally-insane, Bush Junta.

Praise be to God!

Eternity

Obama and Kucinich

 Obama and Kucinich have one thing in common---both were put in place by a locally corrupt party machine.  Obama has shown to be far more effective at dramatic  societal change than the other. 

How much is each politician obligated to political payback?  Well, we'll just have to wait and see.  Remember--Kucinich was politically dead from 1979 to 1995 and had nothing to run on until the party remade him as the populist they needed against rich, elitist Martin Hoke.  But, we have short memories around here.  And, so it goes...

BTW--This is my opinion and I am entitled to it. And, everyone else here is entitled to their own.

Kucinich is appreciated more

Kucinich is appreciated more in other areas than he is here in Cleveland.  I actually agreed with his reasons for voting no on the health care bill.  It gives too much power to the insurance companies that helped create the health care debacle.  I favor a public option that takes the control of health care out of the hands of the insurance companies.  How did health care ever get into this mess in the first place?  Was it greed that created the problem?

the point

I think that the point that Roldo is making, though I didn't get it until he clarified, is that this is no time to divide the party just to show supporters that he is still a good guy. 

Standing by your

Standing by your convictions, even if it causes division, can never be wrong.  Be true to thyself!

it isn't pretty in the end

 - like a woman who stays with a real jerk for a boyfriend, because she's afraid she'll never get better. not a gOOd choice... same concept.

and it is never pretty in the end.

So what if he shook hands

So what if he shook hands with George W. Bush?   That's not a substantive criticism.  Get real, Roldo.   Dennis gave his reasons for his vote.  Agree or disagree.  He gave a thorough explanation for his vote.  Quit being so fucking silly.  

Baby steps towards Healthcare Reform

The Obama administration is to be commended for addressing the number one issue literally killing us, our economy and our citizenry.

I am personally amazed, so far, that despite our national divisiveness, which continues to pit the haves against the have-nots,  President Obama has made tremendous strides in helping us all recognize that "there, but for the grace of God, we go."

He has shown himself to be a leader who wants to lift everyone, not just the elite few, to the top.  Pray for him and pray for all of us.

response

Eternity: Who said anything about never criticizing Obama. You should examine your professed support of Obama with your constant criticism of him.

 

Theo669: Nothing silly at all about the final paragraph. Put it together with the points I tried to make about why Kucinich should have voted for the health plan, which you conveniently ignore.

Myopia and cherry-picking the facts...when it comes to Obama

Roldo,

First let me say that I think that you are definitely an asset to Cleveland and RealNeo--that I have no intent to malign you or debunk you erudition.  Clearly your experience(s) substantiates your words.  HOWEVER, let's keep it real.  Because, it's no secret that you are an Obama protectionist, willing to prop-up, justify, omit the truth and enable him at virtually every opportunity you get.  And in regards to your stating that I need to "examine your [my] professed support of Obama with your [my] constant criticism of him."  Did you not read the last sentence of my prior post where I said "But let me say this, at the end of the day, I'm grateful for both Obama and Kucinich, because even on their worst days, they are a hell of a lot better than the criminally-insane, Bush Junta."  

AND did you not see the post I posted of Glenn Greenwald, another critical supporter of Obama, who wrote positive words about the Presidents change in a War on Drugs policy?  AND I must also ask, did you not read the piece I wrote and posted some weeks back just after Obama was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, in part saying:

...Obama has turned out to be a game changer, even as he embraces many of the same ole, same ole policies...like those of Bush and Clinton.  Obama carries himself in a very stately manner and enough cannot be said of his diplomatic skills, his wit and charm, his embrace of digital communication, he and his families image of good health...

AND, if you look through my prior posts, you will find that I have had many other positive things to say about Obama, AND if you visit my blog (most of what's there, is not posted here @ RealNeo, as I view each format as wholly independent) you will find even more criticism and KIND WORDS too.  So this construction that you have formulated in your mind that I'm some kind of crazy-ass Obama hater, never having anything good to say, is absolute bunk.  Because the REAL truth is, is that you and millions of others are so wet-in-the-panties over our hunk-of-a-president that ya'll can't even see straight.

I'm happy and grateful we have Obama in the White House--should be called the Black House, 'cause black folks did build the damn thing--but he is not a rock star, and I am not one of his dizzy, dream-eyed fans!

Criticize Kucinich if you will, sometimes he probably deserves it.  Though as I've already said, I like Dennis and I support him.  So quit crying foul everytime someone calls out Obama's duplicity--his kissing up to Republicans.

Eternity

I'm giving Obama lots of

I'm giving Obama lots of leeway and hoping he'll succeed, knowing what he is up against and what the alternative is. No apology for that. But thanks for your comments Eternity.

Obama

 Again I thank you for clarifying the big picture, Roldo. I am not happy with a lot of stuff but I have got to say that Obama had done overall a good job, and he has Congress to deal with, all the conservative Democrats and Republicans that must pass the legislation that gets amended so much that it looks nothing like the original bill.

If the Democrats don't pull together and stand up to the growing tide of rhetoric coming out of the conservative groups, in three years we will be even more unhappy. I think debate is a healthy activity, but what we have coming out of Washington is beyond that.

We will probably have the Republican candidates announce themselves in about a year, then it will be a free for all attack on Obama and every strong Democrat. We also have U.S. Senate races coming up, the primary is just months away, and the fear mongers have primed the nation for the Republicans regaining control.

Time for a strong third

Time for a strong third party to emerge.  One that takes the good from both the Republican and the Democrat parties and discards the junk to form a brand new party that is fresh and clean.